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A Cross-Classroom Project for Spring 2007
Welcome!
Welcome to our English 103 Cross-Classroom blog project! We will be, in groups from four different English 103 classes, discussing various war poems/lyrics in terms of how they use rhetoric and the messages they convey.
Blog Archive
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2007
(13)
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March
(13)
- Group One: Max B. (19), Staci T. (19), John E. (33...
- Group Two: Megan B. (19), Lily B. (33), Hayley R. ...
- Group Three: Sarah B. (19), Devyn L. (33), Tom C. ...
- Group Four : Nathaniel C. (19), Jan W. (19), Mary ...
- Group Five : Rachel D. (19), Rob P. (19), Justin R...
- Group Six : Elise F. (19), Sarah B. (33), Scott W....
- Group Seven : Scott S. (19), Bryson T. (19), Kirst...
- Group Eight : Lindsey H. (19), Jamia B. (33), Will...
- Group Nine : Valerie N. (19), Mandy Z. (33), Sean ...
- Group Ten : Tonya S. (19), Ashley T. (19), Kenny D...
- Group Eleven : Kate S. (19), Sydney D. (33), Danie...
- Group Twelve : Anna J. (19), Stephen M. (19), Geor...
- Guide for the Rhetoric & War Cross-Classroom Blog
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March
(13)
18 comments:
Fiddle & The Drum by Joni Mitchell
And so once again,
My dear Johnny, my dear friend,
And so once again you are fighting us all,
And when I ask you why,
You raise your sticks and cry, and I fall,
Oh, my friend,
How did you come?,
To trade the fiddle for the drum,
You say I have turned,
Like the enemies you've earned,
But I can remember,
All the good things you are,
And so I ask you please,
Can I help you find the peace and the star?,
Oh, my friend,
What time is this?,
To trade the handshake for the fist
And so once again,
Oh, America my friend,
And so once again,
You are fighting us all,
And when we ask you why,
You raise your sticks and cry and we fall,
Oh, my friend,
How did you come,
To trade the fiddle for the drum
You say we have turned,
Like the enemies you've earned,
But we can remember,
All the good things you are,
And so we ask you please,
Can we help you find the peace and the star?,
Oh my friend,
We have all come,
To fear the beating of your drum
The lines, "Oh my friend / How did you come / To trade the fiddle for the drum" are very significant lines. Here Joni Mitchell is asking why America has traded peace (the fiddle) for war and violence (the drum). A drum is often associated with war and the events leading up to war; a war drum. The artist is raising questions why America is not a peaceful nation anymore. - Andrew Mumma
Hey Group,
I am Sam Hall an Agriculture Economics major. This poem didnt necessarily make me think of war at first because it doesn't use the word directly. However you can begin to look at the different comparisons such as the fiddle and the drum and handshake and the fist and also the words friend and enemy. All of these words can show how the point of the poem is to find peace and to get rid of the anger because the speaker says "can I help you please find the peace and the star".
-Sam Hall (27)
Dear Group,
I agree with both of these comments. To me the lyrics of this song represent how someone would feel if one of their good friends all of a sudden turned sides and started fighting against them. I think that this song could be referring to the Civil War, because at the time there was no boundary line that said that people past a certain line could not be friends. So when it came time for the war those people who were friends with each other, but were on opposite sides did fight against each other. I believe that this song relates the relationships between the fist and handshake to the friendships that there were before and to the hate that there was during/after the war.
- Jan Wilkerson
Hey Group,
My name is Mary Margaret Wilkins, and I am a Early Childhood Education major. I think that Joni Mitchell's song is from the point of view of a soldier's family, who was orginially supportive, but after their son was away for a long time, they begin to get angry with the government. When the family says, "But I can remember,/ All the good things you are,/ And so I ask you please,/ Can I help you find the peace and the star?" they are urging the United States to make peace and bring their boys home. The author uses the fiddle to represent the good times in our country and the drum to represent the war times. The author yearning for peace back in the United States.
-Mary Margaret
Hey Group,
From reading the lines in the poem the first thing that comes to mind is what Jan said about he Civil War. The author constantly states that his enemy was once his friend and that he does not understand why his own friend brough war against him. The author continuously urges his friend to make peace and offers to help him make peace. The author seems to be caught in between two sides fighting for peace with words instead of violence. The poem to me represents a struggle of friendship or for friendship and all the dangers and evils that can come between two friends.
-Nathan Craig
I think all the comments about the song so far make really good points. To me I feel like this song is about a soldier who is fighting for a side against that of his family and friends. The lines, “You say I have turned, Like the enemies you've earned” gives the impression that he is a trader just like the others he hates who traded on him. His friend, the narrator in the song, only wants to make peace and move on by saying he wants, “To trade the handshake for the fist.”
- Lauren Haviland
Hey Group!
After reading the comments that have been posted, it really helps me to understand the lyrics of this song better. This song is not one that I find very easy to interpret, but the postings all explain different points about it that I had not realized. Mary Margaret made a great point about how the lyrics of this song may be describing how the parents and friends of the boys that were fighting in the war may have felt towards the government. I also agree with what Andrew said about how the reference to the drum represents the war, I was not aware of this until I read his comment. Each of these comments are all very helpful in making the song more clear and easier to understand.
-Jan Wilkerson
Hey Group,
I thought all of these comments helped me better understand this song. I think we all realized and agreed on the fact that there was a conflict going on in this song. Since we all posted comments it helped me to see other peoples points of view that I probably would have never thought of. I also thought the comment that Mary Margaret said about the parents that may have been supportive of the war but are no longer supportive because they want their son to come back home, was true as well.
Sam Hall
Hey Everyone!
Everyone's comments are so insightful! Each person has given me a different perspective of the song, which has made my understanding so much deeper. Jan's comment really stuck out to me because that perspective never crossed my mind. The Civil War idea is very interesting and really works well with the lyrics. The part where Mitchell says "You say we have turned,/ Like the enemies you've earned,/ But we can remember all the good things you are" sounds like a desparate plee for friendship. I also found Andrew's comment on how a war drum represents an event leading up to war to be very interesting because I didn't know that before.
Mary Margaret W.
Hey group!
Although this song was hard to interpret, I think we are all on the same line as to what we believe it is saying. All of your different comments and ideas helped me see further into the message the writer was trying to say. I feel like he is trying to ask, why? Why did everything change? Why did his friend turn in the fiddle for the drum? If everything was peaceful and nice, why start fighting?
Hey Group,
Well now that we have all said the same thing and I am the last one to post I guess I'll write along the same lines as well. I really enjoyed reading all of your comments, I always like seeing what others have to say about a literary piece and comparing it to what I think. I am with the rest of you and think that we have all come to an agreement that the poem involves some kind of struggle. I think everybody introduced a different point though about the poem which was really good. Alright guys we are almost done, the only question is what we will say on the next post?
-Nathan
Hey Group!
Well now that we all have helped to make it more understandable what this song is about, I finally am able to understand what the point of this song is. To me this song is just trying to inform everyone that with war there comes hate, struggle and a difference in opinion. During a war it there can be very hard times, not only physically to the soldiers, but also emotionally to the soldiers and their families. I believe that this song is used to voice the writer’s opinion and the opinions that many others have about the emotional state of the soldiers and their families during the time of a war.
-Jan Wilkerson
Hey Everyone!
For the sake of trying not to be too repetitive, I feel like we have picked apart the song and have come to a concensus about its meanings. War is a part of the way the world turns and there are many sides to it. Our song depicts the heartache war creates for the loved ones of the soldiers who have dedicated their lives to their country. I also believe that where there is heartache, there is also hope, and that this song also depicts the glimmer of hope that comes from heartache.
There is a picture of the steel cross at ground zero that depicts this same message. The two steel I-beams were the only things still together after the towers had fallen. The clean up workers have displayed it in the middle of ground zero. To me, this cross symbolizes the heartache and the hope from 9/11.
You can view the photo at:
http://www.numoonus.com/BizTravel/NewYork/NewYork.html
It is a couple of pictures down on the page.
Mary Margaret
Hey Group
Today in class we listened to the song and it was not what I expected. The lyrics still mean the same thing to me but hearing the actual song and not just reading the lyrics presents the lyrics in a more modern era. I still think the song represents a struggle, more or less between a man and his best friend who has chosen war over peace. I think all of you have presented great ideas about what the song is about and I have enjoyed reading all of your posts. It was fun working with all of you and try not to be like Johnny in the song, don't trade the fiddle for the drum.
Nathan
Hey group,
I think the idea of being able to listen to the song is very interesting. I have not been able to listen to our song but after reading Nathan's comment I believe that listening to the song will make a big difference because I can often read a song and then after listening to the song it means something very different. This song by Mitchell can be viewed in many ways and this has also helped me to understand that reading a song and listening to the song can make you look at the song from a different perspective. I also thought the comment that Mary Margaret made was important because I had never thought of that correlation before.
-Sam Hall
After reading everyone's comments I get the general idea that everyone is mostly agreeing that we should never trade the fiddle for the drum. I like everyone else would prefer peace over violence in the world, but sometimes the "drum" is a necessary measure that leaders of the world including our own must take. Yes peace is always the action that we wish we could take, but certain events have required using violence to respond to certain events. It does seem the world today has chosen the drum over the fiddle, but I believe some of these decisions of force are necessary ones.
- Andrew Mumma
Hey group,
I have not had the chance to listen to the song yet, but I feel like it would explain a lot more about the mood and tone of this song. I think what Mary Margaret said about the glimmer of hope that comes from heartache was a very good interpretation of the song. I looked at the picture she posted and I can see exactly where she is coming from. Like we have all said in some way or another today’s world has chosen the drum over the fiddle but it that little bit of hope that keeps us holding on.
- Lauren Haviland
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